Sometimes something we have to share is just too good for words. So we won’t taint this. Just read this conversation with Gary Tapp about Senate Hate Bill 68:
My Conversation with the “Child Care Expert”
by Bryan Gatewood
Published with permission from The Letter – March 2009 Issue
On a recent warm afternoon I went jogging round a local park. As luck would have it, while I was dodging flying debris in Seneca Park, Kentucky Senator Gary Tapp (Republican-Shelbyville) finally responded to my many phone calls to his office. The senator’s recent actions had me pretty stirred up, so when I recognized the Frankfort number, I interrupted my run and took his call.
Apparently Senator Tapp is a child care expert. Based upon his high level of expertise and extensive knowledge base, he has filed SB 68. The basic premise of this bill is that children, in Kentucky’s best interest, can only be parented by heterosexual married couples. According to Senate Bill 68, for purposes of relative placements, foster care, or adoption, courts in Kentucky should only be allowed to consider married couples. Anyone living with another adult with whom they engage in a sexual relationship to whom they are not legally married will not be considered if Senator Tapp’s bill passes. Yes, the term “sexual relationship” is included in the proposed law. This bill is essentially a copy of a bill that won approval in Arkansas last year.
Now, I don’t profess to be an expert like the good senator. After all, he is married, and he is a Republican, so I gladly stipulate that I cannot compete with those credentials.
My experience is much more limited. I am the adoptive parent of a special needs child born prematurely weighing one pound, thirteen ounces. I have also served as an attorney for abused and neglected children in the Jefferson Family Court for nearly ten years. I have been through foster care training. I have been in a relationship with another adult for eight years, and we are not married because Kentucky would not recognize our relationship.
In spite of my comparatively minuscule level of experience, I had some questions for the senator. Here’s a dramatic, although not verbatim, rendition of how my conversation with Senator Tapp went.
You have GOT to read the rest – and the transcript of the conversation with crazy Tapp – after the jump…
Gatewood: Senator, since you have proposed a bill that will dramatically impact how our family courts here in Kentucky function, I assume you have personally observed your local family court to make sure you understand the repercussions of your bill?
Sen. Tapp: Naw, naw, I never been into family court.
Gatewood: Senator, I’m sure you’re aware that every week across this state, countless abused and neglected children are removed from the care of abusive parents. I’m sure you’re also aware that most of these children are placed in what’s called a “relative placement,” which is someone like a grandmother, aunt, uncle or cousin who is an appropriate care giver. The benefit is multi-faceted: a traumatized child can stay with a family member to whom they are already bonded, rather than being placed with strangers in foster care. This also saves the state a lot of money compared to foster care.
Now, much of the time grandma, aunt, or uncle has a live-in boyfriend/girlfriend. In family court jargon, this person is called a “paramour.” As long as the “paramour” is not found to be inappropriate, the court is thrilled that an abused child has a safe place to stay and could not care less about a marriage certificate. Is it really your intent to disqualify all of these relative placements because grandma happens to have chosen not to get a marriage certificate?
Sen. Tapp: Yes. I think a child should be in a home with a stable relationship.
Gatewood: Senator, do you really believe that a marriage certificate is the indicator of a stable relationship? Most of the parents who are dragged into court for abusing their children or beating each other up are married. My observation from ten years in family court is a marriage certificate has nothing to do with stability.
Sen. Tapp: Well, I believe anyone raising children should be married. It means the relationship is stable.
Gatewood: Wouldn’t it seem logical for you, as a state senator, to spend time addressing real issues that actually affect children? For example, the Cabinet for Health and Family Services, the agency charged with finding homes for abused children, has been underfunded by the state for years. They have had a hiring freeze in effect for a year, so social workers have unreasonable caseloads, and, as icing on the cake, social workers are still expected to complete their jobs but are not paid overtime. I am assuming that you have spoken to the Cabinet about your proposed law and its ramifications for abused children in Kentucky?
Sen. Tapp: Naw, naw, I haven’t spoken to the Cabinet. I’m thinking about the children.
Gatewood: Senator, let’s just talk about the people you’re really trying to target. This bill is modeled after a bill in Arkansas targeting gay and lesbian couples as parents, isn’t it?
Sen. Tapp: I don’t think those people should be parents. I believe it’s wrong.
Gatewood: So, you are willing to hurt abused children further to target people you don’t like?
Sen. Tapp: I’m thinking about the children!
Gatewood: And yet you haven’t set foot in Family Court, nor have you spoken to anyone at the Cabinet for Health and Family Services to determine how your bill would actually affect children? You haven’t taken time to make sure that the requirements of your bill, based not on reason but rather on how you “feel,” wouldn’t cause the foster care system to become overloaded and collapse?
Sen. Tapp: Look, I don’t think these people should be parents, and you’re not going to change my mind. This conversation is over.
Click. Dial tone.
Well, there you have it: how law is made in the Kentucky senate. Apparently what’s good enough for Arkansas is good enough for Kentucky.
I immediately called the senator’s office back; he wouldn’t take my call. After informing his polite secretary that her boss had hung up on me, I left a message: “Please tell the senator that our conversation wasn’t over. Also please inform him that even though I may not be the same caliber of person that he is by virtue of his marriage certificate, in my family we were raised not to hang up on people just because we’re losing an argument.”
I never heard back from good Senator Tapp.
Lousville attorney Bryan Gatewood has been practicing law for over a decade. He may be reached by writing bryan@johnsongatewood.com.
37 responses so far ↓
1 michael kelley // Mar 6, 2009 at 5:25 pm
Bryan, thanks for taking the time to try to bring reason to the Senate, and thanks for sharing this story. As a pediatrician I have seen plenty of social family messes, and shoving potential caring adult guardians out of the system based on bigotry turns my stomach.
Michael Kelley MD
2 Terri // Mar 6, 2009 at 6:39 pm
Oh my god. This should be plastered everywhere. I just can’t even believe this crap. In addition to his targeting of gays and lesbians, he’s also targeting single bio parents, single adoptive parents, unmarried hetero couples, etc. Does Sen. Tapp truly believe that a child is better off with strangers than with a single aunt, uncle, or grandparent, who is unmarried and, ergo, not in the bastion of “stable relationship.” Seriously, WHAT THE FUCK???
3 kevin kinney // Mar 6, 2009 at 8:19 pm
Hum – someone should look into the HOG issues on land in Simpsonville that Mr. Tapp owns. Talk to Primer Stables about how he has treated them, when they put a stop to his development on the land because it was zone ag/farm. You will find that he placed hogs, chickens, mules and goats in a very small grassless feed lot that was only about 3o feet from their house. It just shows what kind of person Mr. Tapp is – like most of the Tapp Family he has learned by being one of the founding familys in Shelby Co. – it is their way or no way and they tend to get their way. He does not care about the kids, it is about becoming Gov of KY.
4 johnny // Mar 7, 2009 at 12:07 am
Gay people are a loving people, and this world needs more love. Gary Tapp is spreading hatred, and KY government may fan his hate flames. It’s clear to me who is right.
5 The Rev. // Mar 7, 2009 at 1:45 am
There is no denying it. Anyone who supports SB 68 is an ideological terrorist who uses our children as human shields to fire volleys at their chosen group to heap hate on.
Anyone who supports anti-LGBT measures in general are indisputably evil and must be opposed if the American society is to survive, progress, and have any shred of decency left in its soul.
6 Henry Austin // Mar 7, 2009 at 10:17 am
As a licensed clinical social worker and mental health therapist I’ve witnessed the best and worst environments for children. Gary Tapp represents the worst advocate for children despite what he may say is the best interests of the child. Married couples are entirely able and frequently do present a terroristic atmosphere to their children. High divorce rates also are indicative that the “stable” married couples are often NOT the best environment for a child. In the meantime, there are 7,000+ children in the state of Kentucky who need placements. Can Tapp explain why he feels institutional life for these forgotten children is preferable to having a loving and willing caregiver provide a safe environment for these children? Institutional life is what they will get as Kentucky greatly struggles with the lack of adoptive adults. Lets not further increase the problem by restricting adoption to only those who pass Tapp’s litmus test!
7 Mrs. Terry Graney, ACSW // Mar 7, 2009 at 10:36 am
Unfortunately, I live in Shelby County, KY, where many people, not just Senator Tapp, hold beliefs based soley on ignorance and misunderstanding. Fortunately, however, I also know Mr. Gatewood and his partner of many years as well as many other loving gay couples who are raising wonderful children. I challenge Senator Tapp to educate himself about raising happy, healthy children, children free from bigotry and hatred, by spending a day in the park with Mr. Gatewood, his partner and their baby. I know Senator Tapp would be welcomed, and I believe he just might learn a little something about “those” families.
Mrs. Terry Graney, ACSW
8 Dawn Hagerman // Mar 7, 2009 at 11:01 am
As a student graduating in the Fall of 2009, I am appalled. We as voters put people like Sen.Tapp in office. As voters we all need to contact our local representatives.
KY foster children deserve the “best fit” for them, by excluding families based on personal biases, KY children will only suffer. This really makes me sick.
9 Dave VanderPol // Mar 7, 2009 at 12:12 pm
Wait folks! I just realized: my BOTH of my parents were STRAIGHT…yet I turned out GAY!!! The same is true of most of my GLBT friends!!! So I certainly hope that Sen. Tapp will be CONSISTENT in his efforts to “protect” Kentucky’s children by introducing “SB 69: AN ACT to prevent HETEROsexual couples from adopting and fostering children. “
10 Dave VanderPol // Mar 7, 2009 at 12:13 pm
Wait folks! I just realized: BOTH of my parents were STRAIGHT…yet I turned out GAY!!! The same is true of most of my GLBT friends!!! So I certainly hope that Sen. Tapp will be CONSISTENT in his efforts to “protect” Kentucky’s children by introducing “SB 69: AN ACT to prevent HETEROsexual couples from adopting and fostering children. “
11 Dale Smith // Mar 7, 2009 at 12:16 pm
One’s ability to function effectively as foster parents should be determined by empirical evidence that demonstrates an appropriate level of parenting skills. Anything less is attack on scientific inquiry and essentially meaningless criteria for assessing “parenting.”
.
12 Ima Hogg // Mar 7, 2009 at 12:43 pm
Tapp really needs to get over having been porked by Al Purnell whole hog style as a boy. Come on Gary, you know it was goooood.
13 Andrea // Mar 7, 2009 at 1:52 pm
I am a therapist in an inpatient mental health facility for children. Many of the children admitted to our facility come from homes that meet Senator Tapp’s definition of a “stable” home – their parents are married, or are divorced but remarried. Most (not all) of those children do NOT have stable home environments. They are exposed to drugs, domestic violence, infidelity, physical and emotional abuse, sexual abuse….. All this coming from a household where the parents or guardians are legally married.
Preventing unmarried individuals from adopting or fostering children is simply the dumbest idea I have ever heard. We have enough children living in dangerous situations; this bill will only result in more of the same.
14 Mary // Mar 7, 2009 at 3:31 pm
I applaud Mr. Gatewood for his professionalism. He and his partner are parents who have only the best interest of their child and the children of all people at heart. YOU are a positive role model for ALL parents!
15 Beverly Benton // Mar 7, 2009 at 3:34 pm
My grandson spent his first 10 years in a home where both parent were legally married and on drugs; now he is a mess. I would much rather that he had the love and attention of caring and loving parents or relatives, even if they were gay or not married. Gary Tapp is a ill-informed bigot and in need of a good dose of God’s love. To bad so many others operate on his same level.
16 Bill // Mar 7, 2009 at 5:26 pm
Do you have a recording of this conversation? I find it difficult to believe that any politician, even a Ky state senator, would be so politically unsophisticated as to admit the things that you claim in this article. I can’t help but feel skeptical. Where’s your proof? And why am I the only commentator asking about it?
17 LRC Momma // Mar 7, 2009 at 6:03 pm
Wow, Bill, let me introduce your ass around the GA to acquant you with levels of un-sophistication which would blow your everloving mind.
18 jake // Mar 7, 2009 at 6:16 pm
Haha – WHAT? Gary Tapp SOPHISTICATED?
Dahahahaha.
Just watch the videos I’ve posted of him in the past. They back up everything in this story. The mannerisms, the tone, the words and phrases used.
There are maybe two sophisticated people in Frankfort. Not even the folks I consider close friends in Frankfort are sophisticated in the least.
P.S. Did you bother to read this article? Something tells me you didn’t (maybe it’s the fact that you think you’re directing your question at the person who wrote the story or the fact that you can’t use context clues)… It’s republished– with permission– from The Letter.
19 LRC Momma // Mar 7, 2009 at 6:32 pm
…even a Ky state senator…Exactly, Bill.
20 Polar // Mar 7, 2009 at 7:33 pm
How about having another Senator introduce a bill that bans anyone named Tapp from copulating? By the sound of this, Tapps should be banned from reproducing.
Even better yet, the KDP needs to make sure that a sharp, moderate candidate with something Tapp lacks – a brain – to run for Tapp’s seat.
Bravo to Bryan Gatewood, who is one of the class acts of Louisville.
21 Linda // Mar 8, 2009 at 6:57 am
If Senator Tapp was truly thinking of the children, he would want them in loving, supportive, nurturing homes…regardless of the sexual orientation of their foster/adoptive parents.
22 rodney dempsey // Mar 8, 2009 at 12:18 pm
Senator Tapp introduced this bill to play to his constituents. He belongs to a Church that believes that the reason Jesus Christ, the Son of God, came to earth, was to enforce the laws in Leviticus, and other books that are extremely segregationist , have very restrictive, superficial, stupid, laws.
Jesus came to tell the people that God wanted us to “keep it simple” and love our neighbor as ourselves.
Because of this theology, The Pharisees, who believed in the Old Testament myriad of laws, had him crucified.
The systemic root of the problem is not really Gary Tapp, but the people who believe as he does that live in Shelby, Spencer, and Bullitt counties.
Therein, very sadly, lies the greater social problem.
23 see above. // Mar 8, 2009 at 12:21 pm
Why can’t you just publish what I wrote above? Of course, a live human being would have t read this for that to happen.
24 Pam // Mar 8, 2009 at 2:32 pm
I have already written my Senators supporting this bill. Not all social workers are of the same mind. I disagree with all the above people and believe that it is the disintegration of family (male and female in a marriage) values that gotten us to this point today. Even the liberal state of California passed a marriage act. Children need both a mother and a father–not two daddies or two mommies. I find most of these posts are mean-spirited and stoop to name-calling. How helpful is that?
25 briansmith // Mar 8, 2009 at 4:26 pm
Thanks Pam for the reality check. Now I suggest you write your Senators and ask them to support a bill that removes all parental rights from any parents who raise a gay child. Obviously these men and women are unfit for the primary marital duty of breeding heterosexuals, and all children under their care should be removed and placed in homes pre-approved by social workers such as yourself. Until these unfit parents realize what they have done wrong they should not be allowed to copulate, adopt, attend church or become foster parents. We need more big-government legislation to protect our children from bad parenting.
26 Karen McCurley // Mar 8, 2009 at 8:04 pm
I was once “married” in the legal sense of the word and have two children. Then I divorced. I am now happily partnered in a stable relationship. There are none of the lies, fighting and emotional abuse that were present in the marriage. So am I to believe that my children would be better off had I stayed married to a man and continued to be abused? Where do these people come from? Kids need stability, honesty, caring and love above anything else. So Senator Tapp, what about the children of divorce, or even the death of a spouse? Should all children of single parents be removed from the home? Are their lives ruined in your eyes or just the ones who could be adopted or fostered by single parents and unmarried parents?
27 Bill Hardin // Mar 9, 2009 at 11:19 am
I have yet to see how qualifying for marriage equates to good parenting. Is is on the test?
Oh, wait a minute, you don’t have to be qualified in any way to get married, do you? Isn’t that something you can do between cocktails (or with them, if you choose) in Las Vegas?
Come on… just get rid of the social construct of marriage – or do it in the privacy of your own church and don’t demand special rights from the government. See how many people ‘stay together’ and do what’s in the best interest of children.
Marriage is not a moral issue – it has nothing to do with quality or character. It is a legal issue. Should we also dicatate that anyone who is going to parent a child should have at least two vehicles, a certain amount of income, own their own home, or have a Masters degree in psychology? Should we take children away from everyone that gets divorced, becuase they are no longer ‘married’? I guess that would depend on rather they move someone in and have sex with them, according to Sen. Tapp. I wonder who gets the job of deciding if their lying about having sex or not?
Is it really any less ridiculous? Why is what I believe (or what you believe) any less imporatnt than what senator Tapp believes. Listen to the answer that bubbles up in each of you, and think about that for awhile. Someone voted him into office, and their will be another election. . . .
28 what a sad world // Mar 9, 2009 at 2:50 pm
it makes me sad that a bill like this could be passed. just because your married dose not mean you will be a good parent, a good parent is someone who loves their child above all things, someone who would give their life for their child, someone who would provide the best life possible for their child and love them for who they are.
The Golden Rule, treat others as you would want to be treated.
everyone is entitled to their opinion, but to judge people for what ever reason is not fair, to take away some one who has the potionial to be a good parent is not fair
just because your straight dosnt mean your a good person, nor dose being gay. its who are you as a person and how you treat others that determins weather your good or bad.
29 Beverly Hilger // Mar 9, 2009 at 3:05 pm
I have been a parent for 34 years have parented 2 birth children and over 47 foster children along with 8 of the special needs adopted children we have. I have over 700 hours of continued education through the State of Kentucky, EKU, UK and Murray. Trust me when I say this….. and I voted for this man!!!! HE DOES NOT THE FACTS REGARDING CHILDREN!!!!!!. There are over 5,000 children in care in KY. over 2500 of these children do not have permit homes. I don’t see him stepping up to the plate to parent any of these children. He has never gone through training to become a parent that is able to deal with any need of any child.
I came from a two parent home and my birth children were born into a two parent home. THE KIND he thinks works…..WRONG. That does not garrentee anything. My parent divorced. I divorced! And the parent I am today is different than the parent I was in that marriage. I am happily married now for 24 years, but that doesn’t promise anything to a child if there is not consistancy. Children need someone they can count on. EVERYDAY!!! And that have not a thing to do with gender or marriage or religion or a piece of paper making it legal.
It drives me crazy when someone like him thinks they know what is best for a child who has never walk in the shoes of that child much less parented a child with special needs….. and all these children become special need children the moment they enter the SYSTEM.
Get the facts before you speak that way you can speak with intellegence!!!!!
30 Jeffrey Reed // Mar 10, 2009 at 8:44 am
Pam, if you think most of these comments are mean spirited, you need to get a reality check yourself. I know Mr. Gatewood personally and I can tell you his integrity is of the very highest level. The fact the he and his partner adopted a special needs child says alot about their character.
This legislation is cookie cutter legislation put together by the American Family Association. If you look at their website, you will find they are little about family and more about denying gays and lesbians ANY rights. They are the ones with an agenda.
As for mean, try living in my shoes for 24 hours. Have someone hurl insults at you for no reason other than you’re gay, “FAGGOT!’ Listen to people snicker behind your back and make derogotory comments. Watch people pull their children away because some gay person is in the vicinity. I didn’t choose this life. I was born this way. I am not an abomination. I am not a molester. I am a fellow human being who happens to be different.
I am no longer going to sit idly by and allow my rights to be trampled by some idiot who thinks I’m a freak. No, I AM MAD AS HELL AND I AM NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!!!!!!
31 Michael Paul Maupin // Mar 10, 2009 at 6:56 pm
Gay is the new black.
People want to say that KY SB68 is the best thing for the interest of children who may be placed in the care of two gay adults. Because there is nothing worse than being placed in the care of the gays. And I have been trying to explain that to the three women I know who were sexually molested by their heterosexual fathers, and I think maybe they might actually disagree with me.
32 ‘The Ville Voice’ has a great interview concerning the Fucker who drafted KY SB68, Gary Tapp. « Michael Paul Maupin // Mar 10, 2009 at 7:07 pm
[...] http://pageonekentucky.com/2009/03/06/senator-gary-tapp-speaks-to-the-letter-about-his-anti-gay-adop... [...]
33 Gary Tapp, Kentucky State Bill 68, KRS 199.470, Comments from My Site, and a UCLA Study: Now this is some business! « Michael Paul Maupin // Mar 10, 2009 at 8:27 pm
[...] Link to Gary Tapp Interview at The Ville Voice [...]
34 Violet Johnson // Mar 11, 2009 at 6:58 pm
I just want say I am an aunt of four beautiful kids adopted by my little brother and his significant other (my other brother). They are a loving family and very well adjusted. All I can say is Gaty Tapp and the rest of Kentucky needs to get a clue.
The real world, if people will just look ,is that these kids need good stable adults who will be there for and love tham no matter what. I was married for 28 years and got took abuse to give my son the best. He is now A graduate of Bellarmine University and living on his own and very well adjusted. And that is with the help of my Brother’s. I am now Divorced and they support my decision and know I’m Happy.
A marriage certifacate can’t garentee that you will be good parent. It also can’t keep you from being abused emotionally or Physically.
35 briansmith // Mar 11, 2009 at 7:05 pm
I can’t think of anything worse for a child than to be raised in a home with tasteful furnishings.
36 Randy Johnson // Mar 11, 2009 at 7:40 pm
Pam….I invite you to have supper with me and my family one evening so you can observe what you describe as “the disintegration of family values” first-hand. I can assure you that our family is just as socially, emotionally, and intellectually healthy as any family unit you may approve of. Feel free to give me a call so we can schedule a time for you to come over and see for yourself. My significant other and all four of my children would love to meet you.
37 walter ross // Mar 12, 2009 at 11:05 pm
this is great stuff come election time..good for you bryan.
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