12 responses so far ↓

• 1 Cyberhillbilly // Nov 10, 2007 at 7:54 am

  Read the NY Times:

  http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/08/world/middleeast/08iraq.html?hp

  This is just one in a long series of optimistic reports coming out of Baghdad. Al Qaida has lost and the sectarian violence is down significantly.

• 2 jake // Nov 10, 2007 at 8:00 am

  HAHA. That very article indicates the end of violence isn’t even within reach.

  Long story short: “Iraq” is not winding down.

  Having family and friends in Baghdad right now– their reports back home contain nothing of the sort.

• 3 Cyberhillbilly // Nov 10, 2007 at 12:54 pm

  I guess it all depends on how we define “winding down.” Despite the anecdotal evidence you have to the contrary, whenver I see good news about Iraq coming out of the NY Times I tend to take it seriously.

• 4 Steve Magruder (I, not D or R) // Nov 10, 2007 at 6:29 pm

  No matter how one cuts it, Iraq is a colossal mistake and failure for the United States.

• 5 Cyberhillbilly // Nov 11, 2007 at 7:49 am

  Steve:

  Should we just have left Saddam in power?

• 6 Steve Magruder (I, not D or R) // Nov 11, 2007 at 8:51 am

  Yes. We should have. Far fewer people would be dead.

  Question: Is it good for the United States that George W. Bush has become the Second Butcher of Baghdad?

• 7 Cyberhillbilly // Nov 11, 2007 at 12:13 pm

  Steve:

  It’s good to see that Saddam Hussien still has a base here in KY. The notion that American soldiers have butchered Iraqis is repugnant, especially on Veteran’s Day.

  BTW, by your logic fewer people would have been killed if the allies had just left Hitler alone and let him conquer Europe.

• 8 Jake // Nov 11, 2007 at 12:18 pm

  Any positive news from Iraq is good, yes. No one can dispute that. Unless it’s some Judith Miller tripe.

  That said– there’s no question at this point that the Iraq war is a farce or that we’re stuck there.

  American soldiers have indeed butchered Iraqis. Ever watch the news? Iraqis/insurgents have also butchered Americans. It’s war. However just or unjust.

  And tyrant Hussein was light years more palatable than Hitler. So that comparison is a little whack.

• 9 Cyberhillbilly // Nov 11, 2007 at 12:30 pm

  Jake:

  I’m not trying to equate Hitler and Hussien. I just reject the notion that we should allow petty dictators (or even grandiose ones) to exercise a veto over their removal simply by threatening to kill more people.

  There’s no doubt that there’ve been atrocities on both sides. As you say, that’s a part of war. But Americans don’t as a matter of course go out and kill civilians. The Baathists and the fundamentalists have. Thankfully, both are on the wane.

  There seems to be a relativism on the left that makes us step and say: war is war, innocents die, why bother. I just don’t understand that.

  What’s better for world peace and American safety? Saddam gone or Saddam here? For years Bill Clinton’s policy was Saddam gone, he just never committed troops to the effort. Bush did with Congressional support. The world’s a better place for it.

  The question now is when to leave. Before we have a stable functioning country or after? At least the choice isn’t between a stable country or a terrorist haven. That’s what McConnell’s referring to when he says this is winding down. Operations against Al Q. have been largely succesful.

• 10 jake // Nov 11, 2007 at 12:39 pm

  We had the nut Hussein in prison. Hanging him was just a stunt. Why not keep him on public display as humiliation, torture and retribution for all the evil for which he was responsible?

  I’ll never understand that. Letting someone off the hook by giving them the escape of the death penalty. If someone murders my loved ones I want them to suffer and actually PAY for their crime.

  Also– Al Qaeda is in Afghanistan, if I remember correctly, the country we botched and essentially abandoned.

  What’s wrong with thinking all war is bad? Even if it’s necessary– there’s nothing good about war. (Note that I said “even if it’s necessary”)

• 11 MadMax // Nov 11, 2007 at 1:39 pm

  McConnell wants everyone to believe the war is winding down because he knows that the war kills him at the polls. But just because the violence is down for now compared to the first 8 months of this year does not mean things are going well. For example last month 40 US/British troops were killed but before you jump for joy remember that is 7 more than were killed in the Virgina Tech slaughter, which put this country into mourning. Do not forget that the violence in Iraq is still staggering averaging 25+ Iraqi deaths a day or a Va Tech slaughter every day.

• 12 Cyberhillbilly // Nov 11, 2007 at 4:49 pm

  Jake:

  I don’t think it was an American call to hang Saddam. It was the Shiites. I think there was a much pragmatism as revenge there. They were scared the devil would make a comeback.

  I agree to a large extent about Afghanistan.

  I don’t think we disagree about war being both “necessary” and “terrible.” I guess it’s all in how you approach it.

  Thanks for the good debate, even if we do disagree.

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